When I complain about the performance of the raiders in my guild it’s inevitable that someone responds with a post like:
This is all your fault. If you were a competent raid/guild leader you would kick out all of the people who are not perfect raiders and replace them.
When I see these posts, I don’t get offended, because I’m pretty sure that the people writing them haven’t ever led a guild or been responsible for recruiting for a guild. I am on one of the most crowded servers in the US, so I think it’s fair for me to assume that it’s representative of most servers. This big pool of eager wanna-be raiders that you imagine I’m ignoring in favor of the retards that I bitch about, don’t exist.
So for all of you back seat drivers out there that think recruiting raiders is simple, I’m going to run you through the process from the beginning.
The Early Days - This is when we were all first starting out back at the beginning of BC. Some guilds carried over from pre BC and managed to survive the change to 25 man raiding, but it was surprising how many collapsed over stupid shit like Karazhan loot. But dozens of new guilds sprung up, most with just enough people to run one Kara raid. Once you got a ways into Kara you started looking ahead to 25 man raids and started recruiting anyone you could get your hands on. If you were really lucky (like me) you absorbed a guild or two that wasn’t progressing in Kara and got a large number of people all at once.
But new people brought new problems. How do you split into 2 or even 3, 10 man raids without someone getting pissed off at their assignment. When two balanced raids stalled our progression, we went with a Progression raid that was focused on downing the bosses as quickly as possible, and a Learning raid that took things a little slower, so people could learn their raid roles better and get geared up. Despite the fact that all of our officers took turns rotating through the Learning Raid, we still had people that threw hissy fits about being assigned to it. Of course, they were also our worst raiders, but they didn’t see the connection between their ability and their assignment. People actually cried when they weren’t allowed to go to the Progression Raid. And I’m talking about full grown adults here. Crying over a fucking game.
The first 25 man raid - Remember how excited you were? The day had finally come, weeks (or maybe months if you were slow) of hard work, getting geared up in Kara and heroics, time spent farming for your crafted gear and consumables, time spent studying the High King and Gruul fights. Then you can get 25 people to show up, so maybe you delay it a day or two. Eventually you get enough people together, you pull that first brute in Gruul’s Lair and half the raid dies because their too stupid to listen to a couple of simple instructions. After a few tries everyone gets it down, you move in to High King’s room and the wipes commence. This is the really fun part where you find out that a dozen of your so called hard core raiders who thought they were bad asses because they can kill a few Kara bosses, can’t stand to wipe more than 2 or 3 times while learning a boss, and the excuses start flying.
- I’ve got homework!
- My mom wants me to get off the computer!
- I just found a weird rash on my junk and I need to get it checked out!
But if you’re really lucky, you can get enough people to stick around and you get your first 25 man kill, deal with the inevitable loot drama when the rogue who joined the guild this morning freaks out because you don’t give him the first Tier 4 shoulders to drop. And you’re working on Gruul soon.
The Tier 5 grind - Once you start in on SSC and Tempest Keep things start to get really grindy. Both instances feature some really crappy design flaws where the order you meet the bosses is not the ideal order to fight them in. And the fights are wildly different in difficulty. Thanks for the 30-40 minute trash clear to Al’ar that we got to do for like 3 months before we ever tried to kill the flaming bitch. And who’s genius idea was it to have the first boss in SSC require you to gear up all of your tanks in nature/frost resist gear that they won’t wear at any other point in the game. Pointless gear checks do not make for happy customers Blizz. The end result of all of this is that people get sick of fighting Lurker and Void Reaver week after week, so your best raiders get bored. Meanwhile fights like Solarian and Leo do a great job of highlighting your stupidest players and you start fazing them out. This is where we started to hit our first real recruiting problems. You always want to recruit people that are somewhat close in gear and experience to the rest of your raid. Otherwise you either raid with people that put out really bad dps/healing numbers or you spend a lot of time doing farmed content gearing those people up. When I announced that were were no longer doing Gruul’s lair as a scheduled raid so we could focus on Vashj and Kael, every warrior, rogue, and hunter who hadn’t gotten a Dragonspine Trophy yet threated to slash their wrists.
It seems to be in everyone’s nature to always apply to guilds that are ahead of them in progression. So when other guilds that were a couple of bosses behind us in Tier 5 content would lose people, they wouldn’t app to our little guild. They’d leap frog over us and app to guilds in Hyjal and Black Temple. I’m sure those guilds loved having to kill Vashj and Kael over and over to get all their recruits attuned to Hyjal. Our recruits were from guilds that stalled in Gruul’s. Recruiting people that can’t kill a tank and spank boss like Gruul is like recruiting from the Special Olympics to fill spots on the regular Olympic team. “I don’t do enough dps to kill Gruul! Can I join your guild?!” Great, you’ll be a huge help on Kael, we’ve got all day to kill the advisors in Phase 3. So we struggled along and finally made it to Vashj/Kael. Suddenly we were swamped with applicants! And none of them were the least bit of help downing those bosses with the exception of a couple of hunters who were able to top the dps charts. And of course since you’re fighting very difficult bosses you’re losing people who can’t handle wiping to new content, which means you have to bring in the new guys that aren’t geared for it. NOTE - don’t bother replying to this with a comment about how easy those two fights are, no one finds them easy when they are first learning them. So save it.
Hyjal and BT!!! - You’ve made it! You’re into Tier 6 raiding! Now you’ll be flooded with recruits and you’ll be surrounded by hot chicks and have all the steak you can eat. Wrong. You see the problem you start running into at this point, is that pretty much everyone who is ever going to raid already is. Anyone reaching level 70 this far into BC is never going to get geared up enough to be seriously considered as a raider. And while there aren’t any new raiders coming along, there are still people leaving. We went through times where we wouldn’t have a single applicant for a month at a time. Most guilds have worked out their drama, people are staying where they are, and the only time you get an app is when someone can’t get along with his current guild. Most of those people are assholes. That’s why their last guild didn’t like them, you won’t like them either. But you’ll still recruit them, because at this point you’re desparate. You’re so close to finishing the damn game (not counting Sunwell - that shit is like overtime) that you can taste it, and you’d raid with Osama Bin Laden if he could control his aggro and shut the fuck up about killing all of the infidels on Ventrilo. I swear we had one girl that kept raiding with us and one of the guys in our guild was basically fucking stalking her. And I didn’t kick him, because we were desparate for healers. This is the point where you start to make decisions that find you curled up in the shower crying, trying to wash the shame off, but it just won’t go away.
Then came Archimonde….
and his hundred plus fucking wipes while we were learning him. And our guild just melted away. We went from having 30-35 people showing up to our raids to canceling half of the time because only 15-20 people would show up. Once we downed him, some people came back, but we never really recovered from him. We were forced to allow more casuals to raid, we had to recruit people who weren’t geared for Tier 5 raiding let alone Black Temple, and the only reason we were able to finish BT was that a guild just behind us in progression broke up and we got half a dozen of their former members to raid with us.
So before you respond with a comment about how if I’d just kick out all the people who aren’t 100% and recruit new people things would be perfect, go ask your guild master or raid leader if you can be recruiting officer for a month. I’m sure you’ll love the job.
32 responses so far ↓
1 Tjista // Oct 31, 2008 at 10:46 am
Wow, that was some insight! Thanks! I mean it.
2 chris // Oct 31, 2008 at 11:39 am
I fully understand where you’re coming from.
Our guild started raiding later than most guilds, and on a 3 night (9 hour) schedule to boot. One of the problems with starting 6 months behind the leading guilds was that anyone who was truly serious about raiding had already found a home at that point. We were always recruiting from a pool of people who either couldn’t cut it on content that we were done with or who didn’t get along with their former guild because they had personality disorders. But, beggars often can’t be choosers, and sometimes you have to compromise your criteria for raiders just to keep raiding. The recruiting pool for a mid-level guild is often composed of under-geared, under-motivated people and there isn’t much you can do about it. Moreover, a lot of them might not have raided pre-TBC and are lacking some of the basic skills and insights that older raiders have.
We also had the “low tolerance for wipes” kinds of folks. Kael’thas was a challenge not only because it was a complex fight, but because of guild-wide logistical reasons. We were losing 1 or 2 raiders a week while trying to learn it. We were fortunate enough to beat the encounter before 2.3 and the attunement removal. I’m glad Bliz decided to get rid of the attunements because, frankly, we never would have gotten anywhere if we were going to be forced to run a bunch of undergeared new recruits through LV and KT each week just to keep things moving forward. On a 3 day raid schedule, you can’t progress if you’re spending all your time attuning people for the next level of content. And you *will* have to keep recruiting people because some of your attunded raiders won’t have the patience to run LV and KT each week when they can hop on board the loot train with another guild that has a solid footing in BT.
A lot of “pros” boo’d the removal of attunements. And, as a raider, I understand how they feel. There is something special about beating LV and KT and there is a sense in which you don’t want any generic raider stepping foot into your new hallowed BT/Hy instance. As a raid leader/organizers, however, attunements were an utter clusterfuck. I don’t care how big peoples’ epeens were regarding their vials; trying to organize progressive raids when you have to attune someone new every week is a recipe for progression limbo.
Beyond the 2.3 attunement removal, 2 things saved us. First, Bliz eventually allowed very fluid cross-server transfers. As a result, we were able to formulate our raiding philosophy clearly and recruit people off-server who shared our goals. Having a larger pool of recruits allowed us to finally be selective. Second, a few other local guilds broke up and we were able to snag some of their more talented players.
Good luck in Wrath. I can’t wait to read more blog entries.
3 Oriniwen // Oct 31, 2008 at 9:27 pm
All I can say is Amen, brother. This is word for fucking word exactly what my guild went through in BC. And the same QQ bullshit about kicking the bad raiders and getting new ones. Except unlike you, I’m on a low population server, and there are even less competant raiders out there. Thank you so much for putting this in words, I’m linking this on my forums so maybe people will understand better where I am coming from.
4 David // Oct 31, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Love the breakdown and I cried again reading it. I have the mental illness that is leading a raiding guild and have been through all the issues you have spoken of. Thanks to the nerf, some of our more dedicated (LAWL) raiders are flocking to punch downs bosses in the mouth and get some cheep epix now and just this week I watched the healing (caster, now) off-hand drop in BT only to get out-rolled by a newb priest with the S1 pvp staff.
While I like the nerf for reasons you’ve put out before, I hate the way they jacked the time line up for raiding. Once guilds could go into BT/MH, they did. Screw Vashj, Screw Kael, gimme my BTLEWTZ!!! Best part was watching people who can’t throw an orb in SSC try and stay out of the fire in BT.
The next thing I’m looking forward to is hitting a raid that isn’t nerfed and we’re in barebones starting raid gear at 80. I guess that’s one good thing about having stuff geared to heroic and 10 man raids is you won’t be compelled to take your S1 priests into Naxx. Or maybe you will, who knows?
5 Cozur // Nov 1, 2008 at 2:59 am
To be honest, you’re acting like your guild is a top world “We are hardcore” guild.
You’re not. You’re close to being just above shit, so it is no wonder no one wants to join your guild. It’s no freaking wonder that they’d rather join the guild who have shown that it can progress.
We have a guild on my server that is like the joke of all guilds, and they progressed further than you.
6 slippytupper // Nov 1, 2008 at 5:24 am
Don’t forget the blinding rage and frustration you get, when some undergeared, inexperienced, fcukwit joins your guild.
Yout train him in raiding:
“Yes, you do need to bring your own consumeables” “No, tactics aren’t just for officers and Raid Leaders”
“No, going afk to have your dinner for 20 mins after spending 1hour clearing trash in swp is not accpetable, less so if you are a tank/decurser”
“Nuke the orbs……NUKE THE FCUKING ORBS FFS, THEY ARE RAPING US”
Then, once that person is almost competent, they bugger off to another guild “I am bored doing BT/MH, we dont spend enough time in SWP”!
WE DON’T SPEND ENOUGH TIME IN SWP BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN GEARING YOU UP AND TEACHING YOU HOW TO RAID
And then its recruit a new player swimming in the shallow end of the raid pool, and start again.
7 brangwen // Nov 2, 2008 at 5:50 pm
@Cozur
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
*wipes tear from eye*
AAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAA!
*sniff, wipes more tears from eye*
Oh my belly hurts from that one. Ah, nice way to start my monday morning.
Ah butt wipes like that are the bane of my Guild Leading existence. You, sir, wouldn’t get past our application process because you, sir, are an arse.
8 Will // Nov 2, 2008 at 7:33 pm
You know this was a great article. The replies certainly show the same frustration level that you write about.
Then Cozur shows up and spouts his awesome words of uselessness.
The difference between all responses and Cozur is this: Cozur is a Pozur while the rest are actually ready to learn/have been there done that.
I suspect Cozur is one of those you were forced to recruit in all greens. When asked why, Cozur’s response was something along the lines of “WTF NOOB” or some other equally stupid response. But like you stated you needed Cozur’s class. Just when they were almost competent, i.e. moved most of the time out of the fire, they go to a more progressed guild that doesn’t wipe on X, Y, Z boss.
You see Cozur is a prime example of another issue that You did not bring up which is this: these people that leave guilds to ‘move up’ make the current guild look bad.
Let’s ignore the facts and look at Cozur, for example. Cozur couldn’t bother to spend the time learning the fight on Prince and so left for a guild that had prince on farm. /Snicker old guild. Cozur then joins a guild that has Mags on farm, /phat loot. That guild wipes 3 times on Lurker, /gquit. Joins a new guild. /Snicker old guild.
Most people do not understand that they represent their old guild long after the fact. Oh you came from that guild! You must suck. And as such the decline for guilds gets worse and worse.
So for all you raid leaders/recruiters I salute you. For Cozur, STFU.
9 Alex // Nov 3, 2008 at 7:43 am
So True!!, allthough my guild broke up before we got into BT and MH, this completely describes how my guild fared.
10 admin // Nov 3, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I love it when my readers point out what an asshat someone is and save me the time. Great comments, keep them coming!
11 Gneblefelbin // Nov 3, 2008 at 12:42 pm
If I could buy raiders in the AH for what they are worth and then sell them for what they think they are worth, I would have hit the gold cap on all 4 of my bank alts.
And I would have made a fortune off of Cozur.
12 Meugly // Nov 3, 2008 at 12:51 pm
The author was clearly spying on my guild throughout Burning Crusade.
Seriously, the parallels are just scary. The main difference was that the doldrums he experienced around Archie him us after our first Illidan kill. We were then stuck farming BT and Hyjal for months. The burnout/recruit new/more bured out raiders vanish thing meant we were unable to kill anything in Sunwell. It was months of torture for most of the guild at that point.
With the nerf/buff patch, we have finally been able to do something in Sunwell, 2 bosses so far. Its frustrating because if we had retained the crew we had when Illidan first died, we would have cleared Sunwell before the patch.
Excellent description of the whole vicious horrible cycle. When I get that inevitable tell from someone complaining about how so-and-so isn’t carrying their weight, yet there is nobody on the waitlist and we already have 3 people from another guild in the raid, I just cringe. I often tell them now “You are right. Get me a good replacement that will show up to every raid, doesn’t stand in fires and has at least half decent gear, and I will put them in right now.” Other thing I have noticed, is that more often than not, that very person complaining is the one that just vanishes in a week or two, or has to go soon because his dog is going to be on fire in 15 minutes, or suddenly has ZOMGLAG.
13 admin // Nov 3, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Meugly, the parallels might have something to do with us being on the same server at about the same level of progression.
AngryRaidLeader aka Xalgor
14 Meugly // Nov 3, 2008 at 1:22 pm
All cap SNAP!
15 Nafien // Nov 4, 2008 at 5:08 am
Never been a raid leader myself, but a long-time officer (now retired, couldn’t stand the spitting of the drama-llama) and a veteran raider. So much in this rings very, very true. Deep down, people are selfish and full of themselves. You could compare the average raider to those who audition for Idol (or American Idol, or whateveryourcountryis Idol). 99 % are dead certain of their own skills and abilites. 5 % actually live up to that, and 1 % are just there to take the piss anyway.
What I see, as a ‘normal raider’, are the obligatory pre-raid nags in guild chat (and I’m sure a raid leader gets 5 times that in whispers) of:
1. Have invites started yet?
I mean, what do you say to this? Yes, and you’re not invited because you SUCK? No, because there’s only 12 people online? Maybe, but we’re doing this PE style and no team leader picked you yet?
2. Where is the raid going tonight?
Will people ever learn that the choice of instance has something to do with the raid setup? Our guild long ago stopped posting raiding schedules, because noone turned up for the progress fights. In fact, we had to spread rumours about farm raids to get as many people as possible online, do the invites and then throw it in their sorry faces that yes, this was going to be another Kalecgos wipenight.
People are selfish. And I’ve heard all the objections of ‘I pay to play this game, I should get to do whatever I want’. Yeah, sure, but you’re not paying the other 24 people in the raid, are you? Come back when you pay ME 13 euros every month for me to drag your sorry ass through MH. In fact, that’d be some dirt cheap boosting. In the meantime, go farm some badges.
*grumble*
//Nafien
16 Andre // Nov 5, 2008 at 5:19 am
Only two reasons why Cozur could make a comment like that.
1.) He’s a gnome rogue
2.) He’s 12
17 kyrilean // Nov 5, 2008 at 7:08 am
@Cozur - you’re an idiot.
Exactly the same thing happened to us in SSC last night. We’re a later guild. We’re benefiting from the nerf. We down Leo for the first time ever and a new guildie on his 2nd raid whines that he doesn’t get the Tier 5 piece and /gquits.
Uh hey stupid! This is why we don’t give applicants loot the first few times. Not gearing up another guild.
@Nafien
1) Amen, but you forgot to mention “get out of your f’ing group already!”
2) I could kill people when they say this. Who cares where we go?! We’re raiding! Isn’t that why you’re here?! Oh wait, sorry. Stupid me, no they’re here to get their loot and move on. Not here for the guild. What was I thinking?!
18 Znorkel // Nov 5, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Good read but you seem to disregard that competent raiders want to raid with similar players, not halfwits. Ye good raiders are like gold and I don’t see any mention of you actively seeking out new blood, and I am talking about more than a recruitment post. Finally, at the risk of being a back seat driver, I’d say make a choice; Get rid of the dead wieght and spend every free hour looking for new people untill you build enough rep till they come to you or accept that you’ll be a mainstream guild and attract that type of player. It’s not easy but no one said it would be.
19 Loco // Nov 6, 2008 at 6:24 am
The funny part is… you haven’t even been in Sunwell, that’s when thinks got really ugly.
Good luck trying to recruit shamans when every damn top 100 guild in the world is trying to keep a core of 5 shamans up.
Let’s not even mention the insane warlock turnover we had with complete lack of recruits. We just ended up recruiting a warlock in karazhan/spellstrike gear just because we couldn’t find anything else.
20 Avonar // Nov 6, 2008 at 6:30 am
Wow, great website… wish I’d found it before. Your rants are highly entertaining - and hit the nail perfectly on the head. Though I do wonder if you wouldn’t be scary to raid with.
I had to switch guilds in the middle of SSC progression. I’m so glad to be in the guild I am now… and taking Illidan down was great.
Progression isn’t worth anything if you don’t do it as a team.
Looking forward to reading more of your posts!
21 Ronboar // Nov 6, 2008 at 10:48 am
The main thing about recruiting fucktards is that they all completely believe that they are the friggin bomb!
ME: (At the last wipe before I start yelling at people) People should really start acting like raiders and get their shit together, we WILL begin to replace people if you don’t shape up and stay out of the fucking fire.
Shallow-end Retard1: YES SHAPE UP PEOPLE!
Shallow-end Retard2: Get it right or you won’t get in on any raids
ME: o,o …
22 Ronboar // Nov 6, 2008 at 10:49 am
Oh and Cozur…
Big epeen, bigger loser…
23 Cozur // Nov 7, 2008 at 9:26 am
Hi guys, figured I might as well post my armory profile.
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sunstrider&n=Cozur
The author of this blog is cool and awesome, but seriously, he’s not hardcore.
24 Brakthir // Nov 7, 2008 at 4:33 pm
And? Are you saying that only hardcore guilds get to complain about this kind of shit?
You’re such an ignorant little e-tard that I don’t know how you get to stay in your “hardcore” guild.
Idiots like you should be weeded out and banned from good servers at a moment’s notice.
25 Cozur // Nov 8, 2008 at 11:47 am
So the fact that some people claimed I was running around in greens and that I am trying to contradict them never crossed your mind?
By the way, everyones allowed to complain, but hey, let’s admit it, this guy runs quite the shitty guild.
26 Travel // Nov 11, 2008 at 2:42 pm
In response to Cozur, there is three ways to get geared that I have seen.
1.) You had a core of friends / raiders that you’ve raided with for 2-3 years. (Sometimes 5-6 if you came from EQ) Your group runs as a tight-knit unit, you can predict what people will do, and they show up regardless of how they feel because they have a smidgen of respect for anyone they raid with. Progression ensues.
2.) You hit the gear minimums to app to the next biggest guild on the progression chain, and brown-nosed in, only to transfer to the newest guild over and over until you hit Sunwell. At which point you get fully geared, and while you earned it thru weaseling around thru guild tags, you will never have the same respect as anyone who started from square 1.
3.) You started late, managed to get level 70 6 months after everyone else, and joined your first “raid” guild. Karazan was amazing, Gruul was hundreds of wipes, Magtheridon destroyed anyone who had thoughts of clicking a cube. You bust your ass trying to drag the group you have (Not the group you want) thru content, one horrendous boss at a time. Eventually your raid guild gets to a point where it runs like a well oiled machine, but since the maturity and attitude of the players you have as a “scrub guild” isn’t the same, you lose some key element and fall back two steps. You eventually, painstakingly get both vials for 35 of your closest associates, allowing you fill your spots with these magical, mythical, imaginary recruits, that are somehow at least reasonably geared (For the progression) and have a reasonable attitude (For the progression) and manage to show up 75% of the time!
Progression raiding for a “casual” guild is a sadistic, ridiculous game of Chutes and Ladders, for every twenty steps we take forward, we fall back 15. If you didn’t have the ability of fortitude to endure something like this, kudo’s to you for managing to avoid the only “hard” part of this game, in dealing with the unpredictability of casual mindsets.
As much as you claim his guild sucks, I would pay dearly to see you take the same group of misfits and get half as far in progression. Congrats on your welfare epics!
27 nordor // Nov 11, 2008 at 3:11 pm
as i was browsings this blog i found a post about some moron saying something like “blah blah blah your not hardcore, im amazing, i am hardcore, look at my gear.”
news flash.
Pve is not hard. The hardest boss in this game is the attendance boss, and if you think otherwise your a moron. (the only argument i will accept about a harder boss, is the elevator boss, that boss takes serious skill)
btw, from one mage to another, mages take zero skill, and are easier to play then destro warlocks and BM hunters, so stop /epeening, no one cares.
28 Merius // Nov 11, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Actually cozur, we have quite a good guild. We did kill illidan, and have repeated the kill every week. Yes, xalgor is a dick and thats one of the biggest reasons we have gotten as far as we have. We are by no means the OMG BEST GUILD IN THE WORLD, but with some of the shitty players we have had in the past, it really was the leadership that has gotten us to where we are.
So yes, scoff at the minor achievements we have made, stroke your epeen because you did sunwell and you have fatty purps to prove it, but remember this, we didnt get to lawl skip through content and get free purps, we spent every fucking night beating our faces against shit when most would have quit trying. Can you say that??
29 mavfin // Nov 12, 2008 at 2:03 am
@Cozur: Really, dude, go home to Mama before I spank you. It’s people like you that make me (and a lot of others) happy that 10-man raids are an option. You’ve got your life so wrapped up in WoW that you seem to define your life by how you’ve done in the game. How pathetic.
There’s more to life than WoW. Really. I’ve got a job, 4 kids, and a wife. And real life stuff to do. The fact that you have none of these and can play WoW 16 hours a day doesn’t make you better than me. It just makes you different. Asserting that you’re better than everyone because of a game makes you pathetic.
30 Gaiwyn // Nov 17, 2008 at 1:29 am
The moral of the story: Don’t. Recruit. Children.
Great post and (mostly) awesome comments. I look forward to either finding a guild in WotLK after not having raided since Gruul back in the middle of 2007, or doing the impossible and forming a new guild.
But where will one find competent players that are willing to join a new guild, despite it being founded by vanilla raiders?
Glad I cam back to do some catchup on the blog. Your entries are inspiring and speak to so many people.
31 AetherMdLoud // Nov 17, 2008 at 6:46 am
“You’re so close to finishing the damn game that you can taste it, and you’d raid with Osama Bin Laden if he could control his aggro and shut the fuck up about killing all of the infidels on Ventrilo. ”
LOL that’s some epic shit right there. Too true indeed.
32 Funny Post « Notes from Alleria // Jan 15, 2009 at 10:05 am
[...] info By mvweaver Categories: Uncategorized The Shallow End of the Recruiting Pool has made me laugh time and time again due to how I can relate to this post. I would honestly love [...]
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